Armin Shimerman in Berlin (Quark, Deep Space Nine)

At  the Galileo 7 III convention in Berlin
Armin Shimerman answered the following questions:

Did Armin know he was going to play a Ferengi in DS9
What the role of Quark meant to Armin
A question concerning the DS9 episode 'The Ascent'
Will Armin appear maybe in other episodes of Star Gate?
On 'Alien Voices'
What would Armin liked to have taken from the set of DS9
Armin's favorite rules of acquisition
Is Star Trek just a job to Armin, or more than just that?
The scene with Quark from 'Insurrection'
A Deep Space Nine movie?
How much influence had  Armin in shaping the role of Quark
How Armin got the role of Principal Snyder in 'Buffy, the Vampire Slayer'
What Armin misses most about DS9
New projects
Was Quark more challenging a role than Snyder?
On differences between DS9 and Buffy
A practical joke from the Buffy set
How difficult it is to learn Star Trek techno-babble
Armin, what about your book?
The ATM on DS9

 PppxsssxPhotos, audio & transcript: © Erich Habich 1999

When I got the role of Quark I knew it was going to be the role of an alien, namely a Ferengi.

I had made every effort to get the role of Quark.  I had played one of the first Ferengi on 'The Next Generation' in a show called 'The Last Outpost' where the Ferengi were brand-new characters. 

I sort of started them and I wanted to continue playing a Ferengi. When I heard that Star Trek was casting a new series called 'Deep Space Nine' I tried my very best to get the role of Quark.  When it came down to the last actors that they were choosing from it came down between myself and Max Grodénchik. 

We were the last two actors left for the role.  I was the first actor cast on Deep Space Nine.  Before Avery Brooks (Captain Sisko), before René Auberjonois (Odo), I was the first person cast because I was the easiest to cast.  I had played a Ferengi before and they knew that I could do it.   They were very kind and they made me the offer first. 

It wasn't difficult at all. 

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The role of Quark did make a difference on my life. 

I used to be very shy and retiring and Quark has taught me to be more outgoing and more sure of myself.  The character has taught me that much.  I find also that I'm less greedy because of Quark.  Quark has enough greed for anyone in one lifetime. 

I find myself being much more generous because of Quark.  Also having a job for seven years is a great benefit for an actor.   And that gave me a certain amount of confidence and security that I didn't have before.  Although before doing Star Trek I was a recurring character on two different shows: 

One was 'Beauty and the Beast' which was very popular.  For those of you who remember me from 'Beauty and the Beast', primarily my main job was to do this:

identify mysterious mystery sound created by Armin Shimerman!

For those of you who never saw 'Beauty and the Beast', you haven't the faintest idea what I just did.  You'll just have to watch the program.  

Then I was also a recurring character on a show called 'Brooklyn Bridge', where I had a wonderful time. And from that show I went on to Star Trek.

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Armin Shimerman and René Auberjonois are to have protested to Paramount in a letter that the relationship between Quark and Odo did not change a bit after that episode.

René and I complained for years, not just after that episode, that our relationship never went anywhere.  We were very upset about that. We would have liked to see our relationship grow.  It was the first major relationship on Deep Space Nine.  And we pretty much stayed in the same place for seven years. But there was no letter written to Paramount.

There was no complaint made to Paramount.   We just sort of grumbled under our breath to the writers for our relationship to grow or something to happen. In fact in the last episode of Deep Space Nine even then there wasn't really a change or an awareness that we had been such great enemies and friends at the same time.

What reason did the writers give that there was no change?

The writers are writers.  They don't have to have reasons.  They didn't give a reason.  They knew about the problem.

If René Auberjonois were standing here, he would say to you that perhaps one of the reasons is that Michael Pillar, who created Deep Space Nine with Rick Berman, created the relationship between Quark and Odo.

When Michael Pillar left the show Rick Berman wasn't as interested in the old relationship that Michael Pillar had created.   As much as new relationships like for instance Doctor Bashir and Garret.  And so perhaps the old relationship was left behind in order to focus on the new relationships. 

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I did one episode of Stargate, which is a show that is Science Fiction based.

It is unlikely that I will do another episode of Stargate and I will explain to you why, although this is probably not interesting to you.

Besides being an actor I sit on the national board of my Union, the Screen Actors Guild.  I'm one of 43 members in Hollywood to sit there and serve for the Union.   One of our problems in the United States right now is that a lot of actors are going to Canada to do a lot of work. 

Stargate is shot in Canada. 

Because of the problem of work going to Canada I probably will not go to do another Stargate in Canada.  That will be my way of protesting and saying 'American actors should not go to Canada to work.'

So I probably won't do another Stargate.

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Alien Voices is a group of Star Trek actors led by Leonard Nimoy and John de Lancie.   We do readings of Science Fiction novels. 

One of those novels was 'Lost World' by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.  I played 'Challenger', which is the lead role in that.  I had a wonderful time.  It was great fun working with Leonard and John.  It was a terrific amount of fun.  We probably had more fun than work.  I'm not supposed to do any more plays right away but I'm sure in the future there will be others. 

The performance is available on tape.   If you get a chance, I suggest that you watch it.  It was a great, great performance.

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When the Deep Space Nine show came to an end all the actors (especially René Auberjonois) went into the set and took whatever they could get. 

Paramount would have saved a lot of money in deconstruction crews if they had told the actors 'just go in and take it apart'.   Believe it or not (I know you are not going to believe this) but the only actor who didn't go in and take anything was the Ferengi. 

About five days before the show was over and before they started taking things apart I walked into Quark's bar.  And there was a very dim light.  And I stood there by myself and said Good Bye to the set and said 'I've been here for seven years. This is my second home.  I don't even want think about what this place is going to look like when they take it apart.' 

So I never went back.  I never wanted to see what it looked like when they pulled it apart.  But if you ask me, if there was something that I would have liked to have taken for myself, I think, besides the baseball, which I believe every actor and I probably 2000 fans all have the original baseball;  I think I would have liked to have taken that orange flag that hung in the back of Quark's bar.  It was a very tall flag.  I would have liked to have taken that, but I didn't. 

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My favorite rule of acquisition:

Treat business acquaintances like family. Extort them ruthlessly.

At conventions the number one Ferengi rule applies: 

Once you have their money never give it back.

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In the movie 'Star Trek: Insurrection'  I had a scene at the very end of the movie just when Picard is saying Good Bye to the woman.  When I saw the movie I agreed with Jonathan Frakes who decided to cut the scene out because it got in the way of their saying good bye.  Which is a very important and emotional moment. 

So I understood why they cut it out.   What the scene was about?  Just as they were beginning to say their good byes Worf sees Quark coming across a square and he is there with two very tall, very naked girls.

And Worf asks Quark why he is there.   And Quark says "Because this is a great place to make an investment."   Quark hopes he can build there the biggest Spa that the Universe has ever seen.  At which point Picard gets involved in the discussion and tells Quark that he has to leave the planet.  

It was a sort of funny scene but it got in the way of the last few moments of a movie.  So I understood perfectly why it was cut.  I must say that Jonathan Frakes made a phone call to me and was very kind about the fact that I was being cut out. 

At first I was a little disappointed.   But now in hindsight I feel better about it because it occurs to me, having never appeared in the film, I can now appear in another film.  I must also say that Quarks make-up takes two hours to put on. 

In America the first question always is "How long does it take to put the make-up on?"  Congratulations Germany, you didn't ask that question.  But it takes about two hours to put on the make-up.   For the film, because the face is as large as a movie screen, we took five hours to put the make-up on.  It was a very long time.  And then they shaved all the hair off my body.  I was in a swim suit.

Maybe you should have seen a picture of that.  Ferengi's have no hair.  All my body hair was shaved off of me and then of course the scene was never used.

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I would like there to be a Deep Space Nine movie.  But it is my guess that will never happen. 

I think what will happen is this: they will continue to do Next Generation films, which are fairly successful.  And when those are no longer popular, or when the actors get too old to play the parts anymore, then I think at that point they will either move onto Voyager which will be more familiar in peoples minds.  Or, if you haven't been told this, they will probably make another Star Trek series after Voyager. 

So at that point I think the film will be about that as well.  Deep Space Nine was never as popular in the United States as ST: The Next Generation.  And so I think they will continue with 'The Next Generation' films. 

But I would like to see a Deep Space Nine movie.  I just don't think that will happen. 

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I had a lot of influence in the sense that the actor embodies the character.  And I brought a lot of charm to Quark.  I also brought a lot of seriousness to Quark. 

The writers used to complain to me that Quark was to serious.  They wanted him to be more fun.  But I always wanted him to be more serious.  Not totally serious, but a little serious and a little comic.   So I brought that to the character. 

I tried to make Quark the most human of the characters on Deep Space Nine. 

The Star Fleet characters always are a little too good for me.  They are a little too noble.  They go into war, the phasers are firing and they stand there like this: "Hit me!  Go ahead, hit me!   I can't die, I'm a series regular!"

So I tried to make Quark the most human of the characters.  A lot of the things that he did were not pretty.  A lot of the things that he did were cowardly and ignoble and greedy.  But you know, humanity is like that.  And that's what I brought to the character. 

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They are made of juice, they are made of water with colors and vodka. What they taste like?  They taste like juice, water with colors and vodka.

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Star Trek does mean a lot to me.  I tried very much to be a part of Star Trek because when I was a teenager I was a big fan of Star Trek.  Star Trek to me means hope, it means the World working as one and not as separate parts.  It's one huge humanity trying to overcome it's problems, which is the history of mankind.  Coming across a problem and working as a team to overcome it.  That means a great deal to me. 

It means the future of not only mankind but of our children.  Of life getting better and better and that somehow we survive.   We figure out our problems, we work out our differences and always a happy ending.   It means a great deal to me.

And Buffy is about making money (laughter).

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I'm not sure.  I've often been asked the question of how I got the role of Snyder and I tell you what happened and you make up your own mind. 

I went into audition for the role of Principal Fludy, which was the Principal before me.  And I read and I didn't get it.   But as I'm walking out of the audition I passed the writers room.  Inside the writers room are two stand-up cardboard figures of Worf and Captain Kirk. 

And I see the two of them, and I'm in a good mood and I walked back into the writers room and I said "How come I'm not there?   How come there is no stand-up figure of Quark?"

And they laughed and talked to me a little a bit about Quark and then I left.  Six months went by and they killed off the previous Principal and then I got a phone-call saying "Will you play Snyder?"

And to this day I'm not sure whether they offered me the part because of my reading for the Principal Fludy or whether they remembered that I stopped by and spoke to the writers in the room.  I'm not quite sure.

A third possibility is that they knew my work as Quark and they decided somewhere in all that they saw a Principal Snyder.  I don't think that's the reason though. 

For those of you who know both characters I'm proud to say that they are both very different. 

Snyder is a man who hates life, hates children, hates people.  Quark likes people and is, as he often said, a people person.   He liked to integrate with people.  And it was a great challenge and great fun to some days be a people hater and some days be a people lover. 

It was a great asset to me as an actor to be able to do that.

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From Deep Space Nine I don't just miss the pay check. 

It's a surprise to me.  When the show ended I thought that I would not miss it.  I thought that after seven years of being in rubber for sixteen hours a day I wouldn't miss that.  But I do miss it.  I miss the challenges of performing the role, I miss the discipline of working on a new episode every week and I miss a lot of the people. 

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Did I have any new projects after my character in Buffy had died and DS9 had gone off air?

That's a good question.  The week that Deep Space Nine finished shooting I also finished shooting Buffy.  It was a tough week.  I lost two jobs in one week. 

I did do one other program called 'Martial Law'.  I did this together with Gerry Doyle who played the security officer in Babylon 5.  But I haven't worked on any show as an actor since then. 

But you are the first to hear the following (nobody in the United States knows this):  we are very close to finish a cartoon series based on the Ferengi.  It will be based on Quark and Rom as teenagers. 

So I have been working on that.  But I have not been working as an actor.  I have been working of course as the Union official but not as an actor. 

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Quark was much more challenging because of the make-up.  It is very difficult to be an actor and work with something on your face.  Very difficult because all you have is your face to work with.   When it's covered up with rubber it leaves you only two things to work with and that's your eyes and your soul.  And hopefully the soul comes out through the eyes.  

So it was very challenging to work with Quark.  When I worked with Snyder on Buffy I saw all the people wearing vampire make-up, I used to smile a great deal and say "Drink a lot of water".

Because when you wear make-up you dehydrate, you loose water and its important that to get through the day you must drink water all day long.  For those of you wearing Klingon make-up perhaps you find that as the day gets older you get a little bit more tired and the way to compensate for that is to drink a lot of water. 

Then you have the problem to find the zipper in the Klingon costume. 

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Deep Space Nine was a show with older actors.  What was it like in contrast to work on a show like Buffy, where the actors were much younger?

It was very different.  I came to Buffy a little bit superior because they were so young.  I thought it wouldn't be as good a workplace as Deep Space Nine.  I'm very happy to say that I was very wrong.   They had more fun and a lot more practical jokes there but it was a bunch of very professional actors who had learned their trade very early. 

Especially Sarah who plays Buffy.  She is perhaps one of the most professional people I ever met.  Incredibly prepared for her work.  But it was a much more fun place to be.  It might also be that because I didn't wear any make-up that the day started better for me.

I enjoyed a great deal working at Buffy.   I'm very sorry that they killed me off.  Maybe Snyder has a twin-brother somewhere? 

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When we were shooting an episode called 'Banned Candy' where all the adults acted like teenagers we had to keep eating chocolate all day long.  The chocolate was what turned us into teenagers. 

On television you often do a scene over and over and over again.  So we kept eating all the chocolate bars over and over and over again.  We thought very silly, very silly.  I think we added about an additional four hours to the shooting schedule on that particular day because none of us could say the lines straight.  We'd start to say them, we'd start to laugh, and they'd say "Cut!"

And we'd start again.  It took us hours and hours to get through it. 

I did say practical jokes: I don't remember any exploding cigars or anything like that.  Because basically Sarah's time was extremely valuable.  If anyone played around too much on the set it cuts into her day and she doesn't like that.  There wasn't a great deal of practical jokes but there was much fooling around, having a good time. 

We had this on Deep Space Nine too, but not as much as on Buffy.

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It's as difficult as learning to speak a foreign language to learn the lines for techno-babble.  It is a different language.  And though we can learn it, it is harder to do that than to speak in our own language. 

For Star Trek actors it is especially difficult, because we get our scripts very late.  Sometimes actually just a day before we say the lines.  That means we have to memorize a foreign language, techno-babble, very quickly. 

I must say that I didn't have to do that very often.  I always thought because I had to wear the rubber head that they never gave me techno-babble. 

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I am also a writer and I co-wrote a Star Trek novel with David George.  It's called the '34TH RULE'.  It's a story about the Ferengi.  I always felt that Star Trek portrays a lot of good things.  I'm very proud to be a part of it.  There is however a subtle prejudice in Star Trek. 

Which is that some races are better than other races.

I originally wanted to write an episode about that.  And they said they didn't want to do it.  David and I then decided to write a novel about it.  And the 'Thirty-fourth Rule' is about what happens when the Ferengi are expelled from Bajoran space simply because they are Ferengi. 

Let me go back a step:
It seems to me that if you're Human or a Vulcan you are somewhat of a superior race.   If you are a Klingon, a little bit less down the ladder.  If you are Bajoran or one of the other races, Cardassian for example, they are not as good as the human race.   And of course if you are Ferengi you are at the very bottom of the ladder. 

And that's just subtly there.  You can say that the Ferengi deserve to be treated that way.  But why should an entire race be treated the same way?  Quark had an understanding to cheat and scoundrel and should be treated badly.  But Rom didn't.  In human terms he was a very good person.  But all Ferengi are treated badly in some cases simply because they are Ferengi. 

And I wanted to deal with that.  So I wrote a novel with David about that.  So that's what 'The Thirty-fourth Rule' is about. 

I also wrote another novel which is coming out in the spring.  And that novel is called 'A Merchant's Prince'.  It has nothing to do with Star Trek.  It has to do with an Elizabethan character, a real person named Dr. John Bean, who finds himself in the 21th century, saving humanity.   And I'm very proud of that book and hopefully you'll enjoy it too.

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In Quark's bar there was an ATM.  As we didn't see it in the series, could you describe it a little bit for us?

There is a Ferengi money machine on the set.  It actually was not in Quark's bar.  It's on the opposite wall.  And when I first went to work and I looked at the set for the first time I walked around the promenade of Deep Space Nine.  I remember being in awe of how wonderful it was.

Remember, I was a big Star Trek fan.   I felt like I had won the lottery.  I was on a Star Trek show!  I was just like a big kid looking at everything.  I was so amazed by it.  And one of he things I found when I was walking around was this machine.  The Ferengi ATM.  

I thought "Oh.  I wonder when we get to use this on the program."  Never.  It never showed up in any program.  It was on the promenade, somewhere in the hallway.  Between the doorway to Quark's bar and the doorway to Odo's office on a wall.  And we never went there.  Not ever.

And you know, I was asked before if there was something I would like to have taken; I would have liked to have taken that. 

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